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UmEnis

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peggissue
Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #1 
I have a question about copper peptdes.

When I first started learning about and using actives about 4 years ago, one of the first ones I came across and tried was a GHK copper-peptide.  It worked really well, was one of the first products that I noticed visible improvement with, and it was the first product I had used that got me a compliment.

I was so smitten that I "graduated" to what Skin Biology calls a "second generation" copper peptide.  But, after using it for more than two years now, I've slowly realized that I'm not thrilled with what I'm seeing...

Anyways, fast forward to last week when I read an old post on another forum and someone mentioned that the "second generation"  CPs are not CPs at all and that some other people in the skin field believe them to be useless or even detrimental to skin health.

I had already pretty much decided to drop the "second generation CP" product I was using when I saw that SAS carries the GHK CP.  

But, when I mentioned adding it to my order, I got the feeling from Hannah that she thought it was overrated.  That kind of deflated me, I was really excited to see it here and had really good memories of the positive changes that I saw with it...

So what is anyone else's experience with the GHK CP sold here at SAS.  Did Dr. Hannah just mean its not for everyone (what is?), but maybe she didn't know that I had already had good experiences with a similar product?

I would love some more insight here!




hannah

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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 14,366
Reply with quote  #2 
Second generation copper peptides means, in "marketese" spending cents rather than dollars and advertising the cheapo stuff as if it were better! Sorry you fell into the trap.

If it is any consolation, everybody falls into one or more marketing traps at some time or another. We should learn from our mistakes but we keep believing silly advertising.

Copper tripeptide is a synthetic copy of the tripeptide that carries copper in our bodies. Research shows that at low concentrations it helps with healing and promotes collagen synthesis.

My guess is that this is one of the oldest actives in skin care, and people believe what they hear long enough.  

Too much copper is toxic and, no doubt, will promote protein breakdown.

There is no single "magic active". Your skin needs many nutrients and complex serums like our "let's make collagen" will benefit your skin lots more than a single active, especially one known to hurt your skin when used at high concentrations.

Welcome to the real world!

UmEnis

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peggissue
Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks for the info Dr. Hannah!

Ok, now I'm freaked out.  I didn't mention this specifically because I wanted to see what you said first, so i just left it as a vague "I've slowly realized that I'm not thrilled with what I'm seeing"  

But now that you've said "Too much copper is toxic and, no doubt, will promote protein breakdown" I worry that I've damaged my skin.  I don't mind terribly that I've fallen into a marketing trap if its just lost money--I mind much more that I've fallen into one that may have caused permanent damage!

My skin looks great on the surface, smooth, very few fine lines and improved crepeiness from chemical exfoliation, but over the past two years (since I've continually "graduated" in strength from GHK to two stronger copper products) I've noticed alarming laxity.  If this doesn't scream protein breakdown, I don't know what.

I'm totally committed to buying the LMC serum!  That's what brought me to your company in the first place

What brought me to the forum, on the other hand, was tweaking my routine.  

Are there any specific actives that should be added to the LMC or a base/ ready-made cream (I've been really thinking of the mitochondria cream) to address the possible protein loss that I've caused myself with these products.

Also, not to keep harping on the CPs, but like I said... while I noticed nothing positive from the "second generation CPs" I did notice some really nice changes with the original GHK I used.  Since I've already noticed that GHK works well with my skin, would it not be beneficial to add it to the LMC or something else?

Thanks for your patience
hannah

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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 14,366
Reply with quote  #4 
The let's make collagen serum is excellent, you don't need to add anything.

Our skin is not a wall: the excess copper will go away and your skin will recover.

You can' add copper to LMC, which contains vitamin C. By now, you probably had as much copper as you skin can take, give it a break!

You may wish to add our Vitamin A cream at night, it will help a lot.

UmEnis

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peggissue
Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Our skin is not a wall: the excess copper will go away and your skin will recover

Good news!

I use retinA at .05%  It's had a place in my routine over the past 4 years because its the dermatologists' gold standard, though I've taken several long breaks when trying to conceive and then pregnant.

What do you think of it compared to the vitamin A cream.  And if you think its a good idea to keep the retinA how often is good?

I know there are differences of opinion in whether its  better to exfoliate gently but very often or strongly but less often.  What is your professional opinion.  My skin tends to do quite well with chemical exfoliation. 
hannah

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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 14,366
Reply with quote  #6 
If you use let's make collagen serum, RetinA  will be fine.By itself, our Vitamin A cream is probably better.

Dermatologists have a limited array of "actives" on hand, only FDA approved medications, great for big problems but not for anti-age, because aging is not a disease.
NYC

peggissue
Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 460
Reply with quote  #7 

I think Hannah meant to say that you " can't " add copper peptide to LMC as LMC contains vitamin C, please correct me if I am wrong, thank you

Also, I would strongely suggest you to incorporate BKRW in your routine....


Also, Hannah, I always wanted to ask you if copper can cause increase in melanin production and darkening of skin tone? Thank you!

UmEnis

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peggissue
Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #8 
I looked into the BKRW cream--it sounds absolutely wonderful and perfect for my needs.  Thanks for the suggestion NYC

Hannah would you think it beneficial or necessary to add the KGF to either the LMC or the BKRW cream?  I'm obviously no expert but isn't keratin the skin's protein and if it was protein that was damaged by the "SG CP's" that I used... and if there's enough in the vial, could I use the extra to help with the postpartum shed I'm  battling now!
hannah

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Moderator
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 14,366
Reply with quote  #9 
NYC, of course you are right.

Keratinocyte growth factor has to do with keratinocytes and hair, not with keratin as a protein.

Keratin (in our hair and nails) is a very resilient protein, and its role in the outer layers of the epidermis is to prevent water loss. I don't think the problem with copper is what it does to keratin but I will read about this next week.
Flick77

peggissue
Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #10 
Hi, I was just about to order the copper peptide and canvas base cream, along with the LMC serum from your UK site until I did a search on this forum. I had read quite a bit about copper peptides on other sites and it sounded great. So are CP's not good for your skin then? and if so why are they for sale from this site?

Thanking you in advance for your input

F

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